Never Marry Your First Cousin…

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Gay vs. 1st Cousin Marriage Restrictions

Gay vs. 1st Cousin Marriage Restrictions

Whenever I read a forum thread on the internet I begin to see why at least 19 states in this great land of ours have made a mistake.

Internet “conversations” can go sideways so quickly that you wonder how it took only a 12 replies before the following thread went off the tracks:

Will it happen to us? I hope not.
Posted by Douglas Iverson on April 16, 2013 at 11:53am

The Boston Marathon is once a year as is The Chicago Marathon but Critical Mass is once a month. I hope a crazed cyclist hater doesn’t set off a bomb during Critical Mass.

Okay. So Doug decides to ponder whether the situation in Boston could also trouble the cycling gatherings in Chicago. But we are about to see how people whose conversation puts me in mind of what I imagine the offspring of first cousins might sound like:

Reply by Manny FU…Really!? 10 hours ago
If it does, CPD is there.
Those of us with First Aid kits, 1st Aid training, CPR certification, etc. would begin triaging (is that really the word for it? I forget….) the injured. CPD would call in Ambulances, etc.
At least, that is what I know that I will be doing.
I would hope someone would help me, if I was the one down though. (Pssssst!…….BTW, my first aid kit is in my trunk.)



What I always find magical is the faith that ChainLinkers have police when they really need them, but otherwise you can read countless threads in which they show how thoroughly police are despised. It is the sort of reading that constantly reminds me of the ways in which Junior High School students both despise their parents and yet are always standing around with their hands out when they need money to buy those special clothing items or tickets to a rock concert or whatever. Cannot stand their parents but cannot get along without them either:

Reply by Douglas Iverson 6 hours ago
Keep the first aid kit in your backpack, which doesn’t help with severed arms and/or legs. North Korea threatening nuclear war. What is wrong with the human race? The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
SupPose they gavE a war And noboby CamE. Pay attention to the upper case letters except for the first one at the beginning of the sentance. It is in order. Spell it out.

Reply by notoriousDUG 6 hours ago
Some guy without even a first aid kit helped save somebodies life by giving immediate aid to an injured party; uif you can help any person in a disaster, no matter how small, DO IT.
Douglas, the man I am ashamed share a name with, shut the hell up and immediately stop making this about your thoughts on North Korea, denigrating those who try to help in times of tragedy and other wise not being respectful of what happened in Boston.

Obviously this conversation has “turned on a dime“. Frankly the outrage seems a bit over the top for notoriousDUG but he and Douglas Iverson have had words before on this forum. One does wonder though how the so-called Cycling Movement is ever supposed to move forward with such inner turmoil, so obviously lying at or near the surface of communications, between what is supposed to be a network of like-minded people.

But the ChainLink is sometimes the best way to understand the inner workings of the Urban Cyclists mind:

Reply by h’ 1.0 1 hour ago
At this point ‘h decided to post an image of the youngest victim of the bombings in Boston shown holding up a hand-lettered sign. I guess he thought perhaps it was (considering the context of his words) a bit tasteless and removed it. Good thing too. But like so much of what goes on within the “internet walls” of this forum it lacks class and direction.

Reply by Albany Park Al 3 hours ago
The Boston Marathon is a famous sporting event that attracts attention from around the globe. Thus, unfortunately, it became a target for someone hoping to capitalize on that attention.
Chicago Critical Mass, not so much.
Ride your bikes, have fun, be safe, but please get over yourselves. Not everything is about you.

Now this is a truth that is not spoken or voiced often enough on this forum. It is as if the entirety of the Urban Cycling World sees itself as either the victim in an automobile-dominated landscape or subject to the failings of errant pedestrians or marauding urban youth who are out to steal their bikes or kiss them on the cheek.

Reply by James BlackHeron 3 hours ago
Did someone see Bill Ayres riding with us at CCM?

Reply by James BlackHeron 3 hours ago
Anyone who is pointing fingers at anyone at this point is selling some spin for a personal pet cause/politics.

We don’t know much, but one thing I would bet my own money on is that it wasn’t radical Jainists.

h’ 1.0 said:
It’s being argued in almost every online discussion I’ve been party to that the attacks are likely domestic because it’s not a famous sporting event and it attracts minimalinternational attention.

Albany Park Al said:

The Boston Marathon is a famous sporting event that attracts attention from around the globe.

Actually all that really ever happens on the forum is about “personal pet causes and politics“. How else do you explain a bunch of folks whose idea of a protest is to strip down naked and ride their bikes around in broad daylight (if they are truly committed) or at night (when they lack the cojones). Either way one struggles to imagine how riding naked and being mindful of oil consumption have anything whatsoever in common. But if you do know the answer to “one of life’s persistent questions” you should contact Gabe.

James you can see is trying to sound suave and urbane. Why else would you reference the Jainists?

Reply by James BlackHeron 2 hours ago

I agree.  I was very annoyed when I found out that the bombs were constructed out of pressure-cookers.

Great, now they are probably going to ban those too.   I want to go out and buy a lifetime’s supply of them before that happens but walking into a store and buying 3-4 pressure cookers right now would probably get me arrested and sent straight to Gitmo, never to return.

I guess the days of cooking lentils in 6 minutes is soon going to come to an end.

h’ 1.0 said:

I think it’s natural to want to work through who did this and why, but I think we’re all more likely to come away with a headache and a bad case of acid reflux rather than enlightenment trying to hash it out here.

Notice how he begins to do what he was chastising Douglas for earlier? He has resorted to “selling some spin for a personal pet cause/politics“. In this particular instance we are talking about his Tea Party/NRA-style of thinking when it comes to gun control and has offered a mashup of those arguments with pressure cookers. A bit striving but I know he thinks it to be clever, so fine.

Reply by Douglas Iverson 2 hours ago
Well gosh, Notorious Doug, once again you outdo me with whit and wisdom far beyond my 62 years. I start a thread about possible attacks on innocent cyclists even if they ride a Huffy and you choose to chastize me. How many bullets did you have shot in your direction that you could hear flying over your head in Viet Nam? Did you compromise your life for me? How many people did you kill or be killed? Get a fucking life. You are a snotty nosed rabble rouser punk that I have already reported to Julie. Doug was my name long before it was your name and it is a rare and awesome first name.

The ChainLink crowd as Douglas is likely to discover tends to be on the younger side of 62 years of age. But that never stopped them from believing that they had all the answers. And as for Julie taking your complaint seriously, good luck with that. If she never took the time to give Gabe the boot, then you have no hope with any complaints on this board whatsoever.

Gabe likes to call the West and South Sides of Chicagoshitholes“. Well that probably goes double for this forum. One wonders why or how groups like League of Illinois Bicyclists and Active Transportation Alliance do not step in from time to time and put pressure on the group or its webmaster to behave better. But I have found that within the Cycling Community you cannot expect to long remain a member in good standing if you ever stand up to the nonsense. It is what keeps the GOP Senators and Congressmen in line when their party goes off the “deep end“. All they have to do is be threatened with a primary contest from a member of their own party funded by the Koch Brothers and lips slam shut and the nonsense goes on endlessly.

In the Urban Cycling Community here in Chicago the same holds true. Only in this instance the Koch Brothers are not your source of worry. It is that you won’t be invited to the next Critical Mass Ride or be allowed to work the Naked Ride Security team. And if these are not enough to get you to shut up you will not be invited to a Tweed Ride or allowed drink with the group the next time they get blotto and ride their bikes after midnight. The censures are indeed stiff.

Reply by Lisa Curcio 4.0 mi 2 hours ago
Mama said there’ll be days like this:

This is evidence from one of the older members of the group that indeed this “discussion” has deteriorated to the point that it needs to be memorialized.

Reply by mike w. 1 hour ago
Could we please, PLEASE, call an end to this trollfest if for no other reason than out of simple respect for the lives lost and scarred yesterday?


But the ChainLink does this sort of thing so very often that it has become part of the very fabric of the place. I keep saying that the $15,000 they raised to improved the software interface of this abomination would have been better spent on weeding out the nut cases and attempting to change its network of interpersonal relations. And if none of that is possible, then for goodness sake have these kinds of threads be private and not global.

Reply by h’ 1.0 1 hour ago
Participation withdrawn. I’m OK with this being the first non-spam discussion to be closed since Leah departed.

After helping to create this furor with his tasteless use of a child’s photo, h’ has suddenly developed some conscious about the state of affairs. I guess better late than never. But the parting words for this group were best put forward earlier:

Ride your bikes, have fun, be safe, but please get over yourselves. Not everything is about you.

A Really Sad Continuance Of This Thread

Having run a Bulletin Board System (BBS) for a decade or more I am well acquainted with the trials and tribulations of hosts who have to mediate when things get silly. You walk a fine line between being overbearing and in the process losing some of your membership and having discussions turn so ugly that members who expected a more adult experience leave because they cannot stomach the childishness that is prevalent.

That is frankly the problem faced by Janet Hochstadter as she has to decide whether her inner circle of friends (some of whom are likely sociopaths) get to weed out her clientele by means of vicious attacks like the one you are witnessing here. The mayhem continued after I went to bed last night:

Reply by Douglas Iverson 11 hours ago
I don’t understand “reply deleted.” Am I so contriversal that a post titled “I rode today, did you” gets thousands of responses. Yet what I postulate ie beware of bombs at a Critiucal Mass ride doesn’t mean crap. Am I missing something? What should I do, being chastized if I discovered a cure for cancer or aids. What is your MENSA card number. Should I abandon this group? I don’t nor do I want to be a member of a social network unless it is based on a specific subject like Antique Radio Forum. If Julie wants me out, I’m out but what about those who dis the bike I ride. Are they really that profound? I leave it up to you. Do you want me or am I too much to handle. There are over 8000 members to The Chainlink and I joined in November and donated (what percentage of members did that) almost the same day. Decide, all you profound ones. Should I go or should I stay? The grammar and spelling on this forum dictates intelligence but I have never”fit in” with anyone and neither did Einstein, Edison or the Wright Brothers. Check with the almighty and opmniponent Notorius DUG for his holier than thou omnipotant opinion who has yet to figure out how I go online without a computer, smart phone, or help from someone else.

Reply by Douglas Iverson 11 hours ago
It’s not about me. I’m single, no children, no wife, never fucked (yup, 62 year old virgin but it could be worse.) It’s about you, not me. I don’t matter, everyone else matters.

Reply by Douglas Iverson 10 hours ago
I didn’t mention, probably because of bringing up the past my stint in Viet Nam. When was the last time you wiped the brains off of your fatigues of the person you ate breakfast with that morning. You are a real charm. I will continue to ride a Huffy in your name. I rode a 40 miler (slow ride) tribute to Foghat and I wasn’t in last place even at my age with a cheap ass bike. I swore that if I ever met you I would insist that you ride my cheap ass Huffy and take it through the first few gears. Offer declined. You’re not worthy.

Sorry Douglas but you have run across the sociopathic underbelly of this forum. These are people who thrive on re-enacting the tribal scenes of novels like Lord of the Flies. What is amazing is that their central tenet is supposed to encompass “Sharing The Road“. That is a reworking of the theme “Love They Neighbor“. As in “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.” You cannot find that ethic in practice on this forum. You might however discover it at the pubs where the membership frequents. But even then it would last only long enough to get you out the door and back home to your keyboard.

‘Tis not the dying for a faith that’s so hard… ‘Tis the living up to it that’s difficult.

— William M. Thackeray

The problem with causes, movements and faiths is that they often begin with lofty ideals and the death of the founder only to have bickering, pettiness and hypocrisy ensue.

Reply by Manny FU…Really!? 1 hour ago
Douglas, Let me be the one to Thank You from the bottom of my heart. As a fellow Veteran (Desert Storm, OIF & OEF) I understand what you have been through (11 Bravo) and how you feel. And I also empathize with your statements.
No, I have not had to wipe “the brains off of your fatigues of the person you ate with that morning.” in the recent past, but had to carry my friend and his leg over 300 yds to an FLA because it was too dangerous to fly in a Medevac. I also had to deal with a 9 yr old girl that was inviserated by a landmine that her brother was trying to clear out from their soccer field. There are many others, that I will not bring up, that I have come up in my 23 yrs of service. The difference, to me, is that I leave that stuff in the past (or in my dreams). I don’t use it to try to pressure people into believing whatever it is that I am saying or selling.
DUG, I have met you and you have been a very nice guy to me. You seemed very knowledgeable in the topics that we discussed. At least to my way of thinking (which some would consider…odd).
I have respect for both of you.

However, all the remarks between you two are unnecessary and make you both sound childish at times. Like 2 kids fighting over the same ball (Chainlink).



Reply by dan brown 4.4 miles 1 hour ago
this is one man’s opinion; but this isn’t even a ‘thread’ or ‘discussion’ and If I was asked to vote I would suggest it be closed or even deleted. I think it’s an embarrasement…..just my $.02

This is the Chicken Little approach to dealing with the central problem of the ChainLink Forum. When you decide to “bury your mistakes” you are in my estimation being a coward. If the group has the cojones to join in an “rough up” an individual then by all means do not behave like h’ and delete the evidence of your participation. Man up or shut up!

Reply by James BlackHeron 1 hour ago
Censorship: Censorship is the suppression of speech or other public communication which may be considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, or inconvenient as determined by a government, media outlet, or other controlling body. It can be done by governments and private organizations or by individuals who engage in self-censorship. It occurs in a variety of different contexts including speech, books, music, films, and other arts, the press, radio, television, and the Internet for a variety of reasons including national security, to control obscenity, child pornography, and hate speech, to protect children, to promote or restrict political or religious views, and to prevent slander and libel. It may or may not be legal. Many countries provide strong protections against censorship by law, but none of these protections are absolute and it is frequently necessary to balance conflicting rights in order to determine what can and cannot be censored.

James is under the impression that he is somehow being lofty when he says very obscure things or mentions groups no one has ever heard of (Jainists). I am beginning to suspect that he is overcompensating for the lack of a formal education at the college of his choice or he is simply convinced that being obscure is informative. Either way like too many of the participants in this forum they place more emphasis on style than substance and it shows.

At The “End of the Day”

I always regret being handed evidence of the incompetently run clusterfuck that the ChainLink Forum really is. But it is what it is. The $15,000 in contributions that were given this past holiday season were supposed to help get the infrastructure “up-to-date“. I have not noticed anything resembling a real renovation of the software but perhaps most of what they planned is going to be “under-the-hood“.

But again I say that if you have what is considered a resource for the Chicago Bicycling Online Community then it better serve every damned one of them. It cannot be the playground of a few bullies who hide behind their participation in bike tours, and bike seminars. There needs to be a more thoughtful presence on this forum. Here are some suggestions:

  • Get some CONTRIBUTORS who can produce monthly articles that are educational and most of all uplifting for your clientele
  • Put the damned FORUM part of the site behind a login gateway (stop airing your dirty laundry)
  • Vet the GROUPS you give space to so as to make certain their aims are consistent with your own
  • MONITOR the place and if need be “lay down the law“, the testosterone-laden quality of the forum is embarrassing
  • Produce an ARCHIVE of articles on various topics related to such things as bike maintenance and handling, this should be the place where newbies find answers to their most pressing questions
  • Get some folks you trust to serve as HALL MONITORS you have essentially a clientele with the mentality of Junior High School students, they need and understand the role of hall monitors